Politics

A chat log, wherein I prove that I do some of my best thinking "aloud", and that my political opinions are highly influenced by those of Steven Den Beste:

[05:47:25] <Forte_Gospel> and how are things with you heather?
[05:49:34] <COSLeia> not bad
[05:49:42] <COSLeia> the Republicans have control of Congress again
[05:50:05] <Forte_Gospel> such is the fate of the world I guess
[05:50:36] <COSLeia> lol
[05:50:40] <COSLeia> well, I don't know what that means
[05:50:49] <COSLeia> I don't have a problem with Republicans
[05:50:54] <COSLeia> it might be easier for Bush to get things done now
[05:50:55] <Forte_Gospel> ah
[05:51:01] <COSLeia> we'll see
[05:51:03] <Forte_Gospel> hopefully
[05:51:36] <COSLeia> it's been said that the balance of power between the two parties is what keeps the nation in a nice middle stance
[05:51:47] <COSLeia> but I don't know that we should be in a middle stance all the time
[05:51:51] <COSLeia> during peacetime, sure
[05:52:00] <COSLeia> but when there are issues to be resolved we probably need to just go one way or the other
[05:52:09] <COSLeia> but I don't know a lot about history or politics
[05:52:15] <COSLeia> so I'm leery of making a judgment
[05:52:28] <Forte_Gospel> I don't think the Democrats have the spine to defend our country
[05:52:41] <COSLeia> http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/KY00senate.html
[05:52:48] <COSLeia> doesn't McConnell look like Steve Forbes? hehe
[05:53:06] <COSLeia> and yeah, I guess you could put it that way...I think the difference is patriotism
[05:53:25] <COSLeia> I think Democrats try to make everything equal and please everyone, which is impossible
[05:53:27] <Forte_Gospel> excellent point
[05:53:41] <COSLeia> and they end up trying to please Europe, or China, or whoever instead of US interests
[05:53:55] <COSLeia> of course denbeste.nu has some interesting articles on the subject
[05:54:06] <Forte_Gospel> I see
[05:54:18] <COSLeia> some people think patriotism is a dirty word
[05:54:25] <COSLeia> and some people think it's the only way to be
[05:54:41] <COSLeia> I am patriotic in the sense that I LOVE THE USA and I think it's fabulous all the things we have and can do
[05:55:08] <Forte_Gospel> The way I see it is that our nation's needs should come first instead of being placed on the backburner
[05:55:09] <COSLeia> I'm not patriotic in the sense that I think everything we do is right, though, and I think that part of what makes the US great is the fact that the power comes from the people...and we have the right and responsibility to question our government
[05:55:23] * COSLeia nods
[05:55:56] <Forte_Gospel> and it seems George W has that same idea in his head
[05:55:59] <COSLeia> I don't think we're responsible to take care of everyone else...we're just responsible to try not to hurt them, I think
[05:56:00] <snipes> what if you need something you don't have?
[05:56:27] <COSLeia> well, imperialism is against the law
[05:57:11] <COSLeia> so if you're implying that we would invade someone else and take it from them, that's impossible :>
[05:57:20] <snipes> hehe
[05:57:24] <COSLeia> there are other ways to "invade" people though, I guess
[05:58:10] <COSLeia> anyway...
[05:58:12] <Forte_Gospel> Personally i believe war is wrong, but you can't argue that it doesn't help the country at least economics wise
[05:58:28] <COSLeia> well, that's certainly true, but I would hope that isn't the reason we're going to war
[05:58:51] <COSLeia> I would also hope that we're not going to war just to make Bush look good
[05:58:56] <COSLeia> but I don't think either of those is the case
[05:59:18] <Forte_Gospel> I think George W has more integrity than that
[05:59:51] <Forte_Gospel> but I will admit that it will probablly get him reelected
[05:59:54] <COSLeia> I think ultimately his goal is to ensure that our way of life endures
[05:59:54] <snipes> I know the news down here is swaying towards he's after the oil to bypass the arabs
[05:59:54] <snipes> but thats just the news
[05:59:55] <snipes> how much do you beleive
[05:59:57] <COSLeia> I know that sounds cheesy
[06:00:13] <COSLeia> hmm
[06:00:15] <COSLeia> after the oil?
[06:00:18] <COSLeia> how exactly would he do that?
[06:00:23] <COSLeia> again, imperialism is illegal
[06:00:30] <snipes> no idea
[06:00:43] <COSLeia> he can't annex the middle east
[06:00:55] <COSLeia> he could try to put puppet leaders in place and take over the companies
[06:01:03] <COSLeia> but I don't think the locals would stand for that
[06:01:04] <COSLeia> nor would Europe
[06:01:52] <snipes> I'm just saying what I see in the news
[06:01:53] <snipes> do I beleive it? dunno, jury is still out
[06:01:56] * COSLeia nods
[06:02:00] <COSLeia> anyway, as to the way of life thing
[06:02:24] <COSLeia> the whole people having the power thing is the primary thing that the government is supposed to protect, when it comes to international relations
[06:02:31] <snipes> the world more like it
[06:02:50] <COSLeia> and so anything that infringes upon the people's rights as delimited in the constitution will be fought against
[06:03:16] <Forte_Gospel> in the end it comes down to justification
[06:03:23] <snipes> hrm
[06:03:59] <COSLeia> I think the government has an easy time justifying to itself, a bit of a harder time justifying to the US citizens, and a hell of a time justifying to the world
[06:04:05] <COSLeia> because our interests are so different than theirs
[06:04:09] <COSLeia> because of the way governments are set up
[06:04:24] <COSLeia> what's important to us is not important to other governments
[06:04:29] <COSLeia> etc
[06:04:40] <snipes> so what do you do?
[06:04:53] <snipes> I think the UN was designed to help in those situations wasn't it?
[06:04:54] <COSLeia> come up with other reasons to justify
[06:04:56] <COSLeia> :>
[06:05:02] <snipes> heh
[06:05:09] <COSLeia> if we say "we're upholding our Constitution" they call it flag-waving
[06:05:19] <COSLeia> even if they are just as vigilant about their own country's laws
[06:05:42] <COSLeia> so when people "explain" why we are fighting
Iraq
[06:05:47] <COSLeia> I don't think they are telling the real reasons
[06:05:52] <COSLeia> they are telling good reasons
[06:05:55] <COSLeia> but those aren't the only reasons
[06:06:20] <snipes> but are they right?
[06:06:57] <Forte_Gospel> being right is just ones interpitation of one's opinion
[06:07:02] <snipes> true
[06:07:07] <COSLeia> well, as to 'right'
[06:07:14] <COSLeia> it's more a matter of balancing interests
[06:07:42] <COSLeia> I consider it a 'good' decision if it helps the US or at least keeps the status quo, with minimal to zero harmful effects to the world
[06:07:50] <COSLeia> but that is really hard to do
[06:08:00] <COSLeia> and nobody can predict the future
[06:08:05] <snipes> yeah
[06:08:17] <COSLeia> I mean, back in the first part of the 20th century people were throwing things away without a care
[06:08:23] <COSLeia> there was this great political cartoon
[06:08:26] <COSLeia> "out of sight, out of mind"
[06:08:30] <COSLeia> and then "out of space, out of time"
[06:08:48] <COSLeia> so it's like "hmm, duh, we should have known that we were destroying the ecosystem"
[06:09:05] <snipes> we're an arrogant species :)
[06:09:06] <COSLeia> but I think the fact that we didn't know that shows that we shouldn't have...if you know what I mean
[06:09:21] <COSLeia> we can't always know everything, and we shouldn't think that we can
[06:09:28] <COSLeia> but that shouldn't cripple our decision-making
[06:09:38] <COSLeia> we just have to do the best we can, and try to fix any mistakes we might make
[06:09:52] <snipes> live life to the fullest ^^
[06:10:02] <COSLeia> there are still things to be done and problems to be solved, and we can't do that if we sit on our hands, afraid of messing something up
[06:10:06] <COSLeia> :)
[06:10:22] <COSLeia> anyway, that's about how I feel, I suppose
[06:10:56] <COSLeia> as for the UN...I am really not sure anymore what its function is
[06:11:17] <COSLeia> I think it would be nice if it were able to juggle all nations' wants and desires and come up with amicable solutions
[06:11:22] <COSLeia> but I'm not sure that actually happens